And this is why the concept of "mindfulness" is so toxic. We need some way to get out of our heads. In my opinion, hard physical training is the best way to do that.
I quite agree. There is a standard trope for men to get over an ex. Get to the gym. Hit the weights. I think it has to be straightforward tasks that absorb us. Lifting weights, cycling, running, rowing all qualify.
More broadly, it is anything that dislodges the rumination.
Yes I do agree with your antidote to depression and it works well for most people once they've taken that first step, which like most things in life can be the hardest step to take.
The problem arises when you hit the people who won't take that initial step. A few years ago I was a friend with the members of all the family including a grown up son who had hit the worst points you described, his days were spent in retreat in his bedroom with the curtains drawn against the world. Several people did their best to encourage him pretty well in your various ways to shake the depression but nothing was working and unfortunately the doctors answer was to increase the medication.
So his days were spent with the television on. The problem was for me the rest of his family were also starting to go downhill alongside of him. So I decided to go for a more brutal approach, keeping the soft side of me well hidden and I bought him a copy of "Fifty Things To Do When You're Dead" and said you might as well read it as you're fast heading there. He asked if I'd read it and obviously I'd got a copy on my bookshelf. So I told him yep and my choice was to be a test dummy to be thrown out a plane to measure effects on the body except I'd have to move to the USA as they don't do exciting things like that here.
And yes miraculously it worked, he started reading and his mum said even the television was off. He chose to be a car crash dummy if you're interested. The main thing is because it was a relatively easy read he wanted more reading and he had to leave the house to browse my bookcases with his money being tight.
Took about a year but he very slowly got off his meds, eventually found a job and started living life.
Yes and with the rare one's like Alan it's a jolt they need, I'd got so worried about his parents and sister getting affected it was worth trying, thankfully it worked.
Currently emerging from a long bout with depression, distraction, rumination etc. Momentum is key to getting out of those ruts and that begins with, as you say, doing something. Anything. It seems overly simple because it is. Doesn’t make it easy, but it is that simple. Thanks for another excellent piece.
Trapped in your head is a great way to look at it. Very easy to do if you aren’t careful.
Thankfully, I’m on the upswing now. Exercising, eating better, getting better sleep. I think writing here on Substack helped a lot too. Forced me to divert trains of thought and focus on things in a way that disrupted that negative loop.
I agree and think the basically all men should lift weights. Sure there is other stuff I also enjoy running.
There doesn't seem to be much connection between the mental and physical broadly in the US at least and I don't understand it. Everyone will tell you go to therapy but not get to the gym.
Getting depressed people to take any advice seems nearly impossible and they will fight to stay in the doom loop. What do you do for example as a parent if they threaten to hurt themselves? I'm seeing this with a few adult children shut inside their bedrooms at their aging parents houses.
It wasn’t until my late twenties that I learned that by working out I had given myself a great gift. I learned that nothing good comes without work and a certain amount of pain. When I finish a set that leaves me shaking, I know more about myself. When something gets bad, I know it can’t be as bad as that workout.
I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness.
Yep the doom loop. When it’s so warm and snug and cozy and comfortable down here that I don’t want to get out.
They say the only time change is possible is when you hit the bottom. It’s true cuz ya sorta bounce. When you’re still in the deep dive you have to act against gravity and that little point is still too much work.
The slide is easy, the bounce is painful but effective.
It isn't easy. And there is no science to it. But mood can shift quickly. So one way to think of it is you do the physical activity to be ready for the mood shift. Plus it may usher it along.
I force the physical - walk the dog, hike, run, whatever - sometimes it works for a bit. Then along come the triggers, almost on cue and the dive begins anew. Same week same day same hour..on cue.
Too much to unpack here. Working on it….I will do this.
Nothing to add here, really. Literally do anything! And that applies especially to the body. The body's made to move. Reminds me also of BAP's famous "Chimp only jerks off in captivity". Rumination - trapped in self-imposed captivity.
Wow, something that I'm a bit of an expert on, something I can contribute to. 40 years of depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation.
I tried everything, nothing worked, everything ended up being distractions: work, drugs (prescribed and not), exercise, hobbies, relationships, religion, just about everything possible I tried. I hadn't gone a week without a suicidal thought in 40 years. Until two months ago. I found out that the problem was me. Not in how you may be thinking, but in the sense that I've always assumed that I could find the cure if I tried hard enough, thought hard enough, even prayed hard enough. No solutions, often not even relief.
One night I broke down, cried, and told the Lord that I couldn't do it any more, couldn't carry this burden, fight this fight. I didn't have the strength nor the will. That I was laying this burden at His feet and leaving it there. And He's carried it for me since.
No more depression, no more self hatred, no more self loathing, no more suicidal tendencies.
He loves you more than you'll know in this lifetime. Lay this burden at His feet, not you nor I can carry it. Give it to Him. He is the great Physician.
Depression is a symptom set of multiple possible causes, just like a runny nose is a symptom of multiple possible underlying diseases.
One cause of depression is despair. Firing up oneself to action without acting leads to despair. This is why spending too much time listening to talk radio -- or reading most of rightwing Substack -- can lead to despair. Unless you DO something with the resulting adrenaline surges. Take the Yellow Pill. https://rulesforreactionaries.substack.com/p/take-the-yellow-pill
The same Yellow Pill principle could apply to other sources of despair. Too fat? Do some exercise and eat more raw food -- but don't cover your fridge with "motivational" images/slogans. Just do, with the minimum of psyching up. And don't over measure the results.
But there are other sources of depression: lack of sleep, a diet mismatched with your body's type, too much other types of stress, etc. The Yellow Pill does not cure all
And this is why the concept of "mindfulness" is so toxic. We need some way to get out of our heads. In my opinion, hard physical training is the best way to do that.
I quite agree. There is a standard trope for men to get over an ex. Get to the gym. Hit the weights. I think it has to be straightforward tasks that absorb us. Lifting weights, cycling, running, rowing all qualify.
More broadly, it is anything that dislodges the rumination.
Nodding in agreement.
Henry Rollins would agree:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/manly-lessons/henry-rollins-iron-and-soul/
Yes I do agree with your antidote to depression and it works well for most people once they've taken that first step, which like most things in life can be the hardest step to take.
The problem arises when you hit the people who won't take that initial step. A few years ago I was a friend with the members of all the family including a grown up son who had hit the worst points you described, his days were spent in retreat in his bedroom with the curtains drawn against the world. Several people did their best to encourage him pretty well in your various ways to shake the depression but nothing was working and unfortunately the doctors answer was to increase the medication.
So his days were spent with the television on. The problem was for me the rest of his family were also starting to go downhill alongside of him. So I decided to go for a more brutal approach, keeping the soft side of me well hidden and I bought him a copy of "Fifty Things To Do When You're Dead" and said you might as well read it as you're fast heading there. He asked if I'd read it and obviously I'd got a copy on my bookshelf. So I told him yep and my choice was to be a test dummy to be thrown out a plane to measure effects on the body except I'd have to move to the USA as they don't do exciting things like that here.
And yes miraculously it worked, he started reading and his mum said even the television was off. He chose to be a car crash dummy if you're interested. The main thing is because it was a relatively easy read he wanted more reading and he had to leave the house to browse my bookcases with his money being tight.
Took about a year but he very slowly got off his meds, eventually found a job and started living life.
I am glad you persevered. Any action counts I think, although it is hard to contemplate when you are low. It encompasses your entire mind.
Yes and with the rare one's like Alan it's a jolt they need, I'd got so worried about his parents and sister getting affected it was worth trying, thankfully it worked.
Currently emerging from a long bout with depression, distraction, rumination etc. Momentum is key to getting out of those ruts and that begins with, as you say, doing something. Anything. It seems overly simple because it is. Doesn’t make it easy, but it is that simple. Thanks for another excellent piece.
Sorry to hear that. As Churchill said, if you are going through hell, keep going.
Glad you liked it. Anything counts. Whatever action looks like to you is action. Remaining trapped in your head is fatal.
Trapped in your head is a great way to look at it. Very easy to do if you aren’t careful.
Thankfully, I’m on the upswing now. Exercising, eating better, getting better sleep. I think writing here on Substack helped a lot too. Forced me to divert trains of thought and focus on things in a way that disrupted that negative loop.
Yes, anything productive helps. Exercising especially.
Absolutely, everything hinges on physical activity.
That's a shame but the main thing is you're aware of it and that's the most important thing. Here's to brighter days.
I agree and think the basically all men should lift weights. Sure there is other stuff I also enjoy running.
There doesn't seem to be much connection between the mental and physical broadly in the US at least and I don't understand it. Everyone will tell you go to therapy but not get to the gym.
Getting depressed people to take any advice seems nearly impossible and they will fight to stay in the doom loop. What do you do for example as a parent if they threaten to hurt themselves? I'm seeing this with a few adult children shut inside their bedrooms at their aging parents houses.
It baffles me too. There are plenty of studies showing running improves depression more than antidepressants do.
Not sure what you do with adult children mind you, or anyone who refuses to do something. It does have to be self-directed.
For me walking, cycling or weights works.
Looks like I put my comment in the wrong place.
I’ll say it again.
Henry Rollins would agree:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/manly-lessons/henry-rollins-iron-and-soul/
It wasn’t until my late twenties that I learned that by working out I had given myself a great gift. I learned that nothing good comes without work and a certain amount of pain. When I finish a set that leaves me shaking, I know more about myself. When something gets bad, I know it can’t be as bad as that workout.
I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness.
---
Absolutely great.
Yep the doom loop. When it’s so warm and snug and cozy and comfortable down here that I don’t want to get out.
They say the only time change is possible is when you hit the bottom. It’s true cuz ya sorta bounce. When you’re still in the deep dive you have to act against gravity and that little point is still too much work.
The slide is easy, the bounce is painful but effective.
Waiting for the bounce…
It isn't easy. And there is no science to it. But mood can shift quickly. So one way to think of it is you do the physical activity to be ready for the mood shift. Plus it may usher it along.
I force the physical - walk the dog, hike, run, whatever - sometimes it works for a bit. Then along come the triggers, almost on cue and the dive begins anew. Same week same day same hour..on cue.
Too much to unpack here. Working on it….I will do this.
I wish you luck and appreciate you sharing. It is not easy but I am sure you will prevail.
Most will not do the work of course. They turn away from the pain and seek to dampen it. Totally understandable of course.
Thank you. And thanks for your writings, I appreciate them. Other perspectives, other methods, lots to think about.
thank you for this! was on my list of topics to write about. you keep the mic. well done. i learned a lot.
Glad you liked.
Nothing to add here, really. Literally do anything! And that applies especially to the body. The body's made to move. Reminds me also of BAP's famous "Chimp only jerks off in captivity". Rumination - trapped in self-imposed captivity.
Wow, something that I'm a bit of an expert on, something I can contribute to. 40 years of depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation.
I tried everything, nothing worked, everything ended up being distractions: work, drugs (prescribed and not), exercise, hobbies, relationships, religion, just about everything possible I tried. I hadn't gone a week without a suicidal thought in 40 years. Until two months ago. I found out that the problem was me. Not in how you may be thinking, but in the sense that I've always assumed that I could find the cure if I tried hard enough, thought hard enough, even prayed hard enough. No solutions, often not even relief.
One night I broke down, cried, and told the Lord that I couldn't do it any more, couldn't carry this burden, fight this fight. I didn't have the strength nor the will. That I was laying this burden at His feet and leaving it there. And He's carried it for me since.
No more depression, no more self hatred, no more self loathing, no more suicidal tendencies.
He loves you more than you'll know in this lifetime. Lay this burden at His feet, not you nor I can carry it. Give it to Him. He is the great Physician.
May Jesus bless you as He's blessed me.
I am glad you found a solution to your problem. It is not easy.
Depression is a symptom set of multiple possible causes, just like a runny nose is a symptom of multiple possible underlying diseases.
One cause of depression is despair. Firing up oneself to action without acting leads to despair. This is why spending too much time listening to talk radio -- or reading most of rightwing Substack -- can lead to despair. Unless you DO something with the resulting adrenaline surges. Take the Yellow Pill. https://rulesforreactionaries.substack.com/p/take-the-yellow-pill
The same Yellow Pill principle could apply to other sources of despair. Too fat? Do some exercise and eat more raw food -- but don't cover your fridge with "motivational" images/slogans. Just do, with the minimum of psyching up. And don't over measure the results.
But there are other sources of depression: lack of sleep, a diet mismatched with your body's type, too much other types of stress, etc. The Yellow Pill does not cure all